An Optimist’s View on Dragon Age 2 and RPGs in General
Jul 11
To Us RPG Fans: It'll Be OK
Change is inherently scary. Change creates uncertainty and most humans (at least almost all that I’ve met) would prefer not to be blind-sided by something they didn’t expect. Human nature also often dictates that when change is on the horizon, fear is a natural response because the brain calculates the possibility of negative results and amplifies those more than potential positive results. Suffice to say, I’m not suprised at the early reactions of many Dragon Age fans who are already prognosticating the doom of the Dragon Age brand and of BioWare’s RPGs. RPGs as a genre are in some trouble, I’d say. But allow me to try to allay your fears and reassure you that although Dragon Age and the RPG genre as a whole may be changing, it’ll all be OK.
First, let me put this out there: we hardcore RPG fans, myself included, we’re awesome. But because we’re awesome, we suck.
Let’s face it friends, us RPG fans, we’re elitists, whether we want to admit it or not. We’ve played games for years that are equivalent to interactive books, with characters and plotlines that pull at our heart strings and pull us deep into a living world while others have gone around shooting each other in the face. We’ve made choices that affect lives and live with the consequences of those actions, unlike thugs who go around jacking cars and beating hookers to death with baseball bats. We’ve spent hundreds, thousands more like, of hours saving kingdoms and defeating evil over and over again while others have spent it playing hundreds and thousands of games of football and created virtual dynasties. And we think we’re better because of it. If you can honestly say you’ve never belittled someone else’s video games because they’re NOT playing hardcore RPGs, then you are some hybrid being of the genre that I envy.
And we’re a fearful bunch because our beloved RPGs in their pure form are dying. We’ve seen MMOs ravage the genre as developers move away from traditional single player experiences to cash-cow online worlds. We’ve witnessed “RPG elements” being whored out to just about every genre. We’ve weathered the storm as customization and control moves away from our hands toward a more built in form. And we take it quite personally. I understand. I do too.
It’s happened across every RPG sub-set as the genre becomes more and more fragmented and it seems no one can even completely define what the term RPG means any more. But from Dragon Quest to Final Fantasy to Ultima through Baldur’s Gate and Elder Scrolls and Dragon Age and many others, every RPG series is seeming to lose a little bit of its former identity and become more “mainstream.”
And one of these days we’re all going to have to accept a couple facts that we like to ignore.
Continued on page 2 …
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43 comments
Comment by Slarth on July 10, 2010 at 10:27 pm
Awesome article and one that I agree with 100%
Comment by Gilaros on July 10, 2010 at 10:36 pm
I imagine that DA2 will be pretty much like what Leliana's Song is. And I must admit I pretty much enjoyed it. I totally agree with you, Bioware never let us down, all the games I've played from them were great. I believe while it will have much less customization options than DA:O, it will be still a great game maybe even better than DA:O. I've always loved RPGs for their storyline, and I'm willing to bet my head that it will have an awsome one :)
Comment by Stex on July 10, 2010 at 10:43 pm
I am disappointed that the story of our own Warden ends with Awakining ? why is that ?
1 expansion isnt enough to finish the story , there is so much they didnt told us , and thats why I was excited about DA II , and now we get Hawke :(( lame
Comment by Calico on July 11, 2010 at 12:47 am
Every time something new is added to the franchise there is fandom dissonance from that unsatisfied desire to binge on the same game we’ve been playing since last November.
“No new romances in Awakening! Bioware, this is an outrage! The fans will abandon you!” etc whatever.
Dragon Age as a franchise rather than a single title got to build an awesome world like Thedas. But now it’s facing competition from all of these imaginary everything-but-the-kitchen-sink games that fans start hoping and expecting will come next.
Comment by Erin Chase on July 10, 2010 at 11:31 pm
Fantastic article, I also agree with 100%.
Comment by David on July 11, 2010 at 12:17 am
tl;dr
Comment by Drakontion on July 11, 2010 at 12:30 am
I agree also. I think people are getting carried away with the whole "but it's not the same as Origins!" thing. Isn't that the point? Otherwise we'd still be playing Dungeon or Ultima.
Also, it's not another origins story. Hence you only have one origin to choose from. That's kinda the idea.
Personally, I can't wait! (even if I haven't played through all possible permutations of Origins yet, haha)
Comment by darkannex on July 11, 2010 at 12:31 am
I'm not one of the people that will refuse to buy the game – and I do understand the reasoning stated. But niche markets are still profitable. I can only hope that intensive RPG's in the spirit of DA:O, and BG will still have a place.
Comment by tldr on July 11, 2010 at 12:37 am
im not listening to someone who started with Final Fantasy.
Comment by stevegarbage on July 11, 2010 at 12:56 am
Heh, here's proof of RPG Player Elitism right here – you won't even tolerate someone who was introduced to the genre through a series you don't approve of.
Comment by stevegarbage on July 11, 2010 at 1:00 am
I'm still convinced that Origins should end with the Warden making the ultimate sacrifice. I know it's a choice, but when you kill that Archdemon and give up your life, well, that's a pretty good finality for me.
For me, Awakening seems like its someone else's tale. Although I played it with my Cousland (who as I said, magically returned to life), it didn't seem like the story fit him. It wasn't the life he was meant for after the Blight, even if he had actually survived.
Comment by ElvenMother on July 11, 2010 at 4:17 am
Finally someone gets it right…great job, I agree with you totally. I love the engrossing story, things in the plot that make you feel, make you think, even make you cry. It is the emotion the story brings out, and that you get so immersed in the story, that make games like this so amazing. From what I know of Bioware and what I have read about DA 2, this will still be the case. I for one am excited about it and can't wait to give it a try :)
Comment by Godzilla Guru on July 11, 2010 at 6:59 am
Let’s see, the game franchises that I play include: Final Fantasy (really like 13 right now), Mortal Kombat, Halo, Godzilla, Gundam, Borderlands, Fable, Transformers, and of course Dragon Age. I guess that’s why, despite my own concerns about Dragon Age, I’m still not too shook up over what they’ve said they were doing with it. As long as the story is good and the gameplay keeps you playing, that’s good enough for me. And if anyone out there reading this doesn’t like the games I like, you don’t have to play them. Funny how that works.
@stevegarbage: I kinda feel the same way with (at least) the Cousland Warden ending (though I think I’ve become such a fanboy that I hope to explain how he could survive the Archdemon battle in a fanfic that I hope to write someday), and your view on the Awakening story does make alot of sense.
Comment by @dennisj2109 on July 11, 2010 at 5:55 am
All in all, I agree with the article (which is written very well, by the way!). To be honest, I loved both DA:O and ME 1 & 2, but I found it two quite different experiences. And ME was just to short to get engrossed in it as I am with DA:O. If Bioware can fix that and make it an epic tale also in gaming hours, I'm sure it will be a magnificent game and a worthy successor And of course, ther should be some connection o mentions of the NPC's we all have come to love (or hate….:-))!
Comment by stevegarbage on July 11, 2010 at 6:17 am
Thanks! The whole writing thing, well, it's kind of my thing, heh.
Comment by Kev on July 11, 2010 at 7:21 am
I disagree and can agree on some points of your article.I have been playing rpgs for the past 22 years.Im now 30 and Ive seen many changes some I loved and many I hated.I would like to say I have faith in bioware but as you said time will tell.Its starting to look like the last final fantasy's that to me are letdowns.Nothing but cinematic movies not rpgs.Well I
have said enough time for the old man to shut up.
Comment by Nic-V on July 11, 2010 at 7:23 am
Well the same is the case for Civilization V which is also getting watered down to make it more attractive for less bright heads. But I believe Bioware knows what makes a good RPG and they will show us next year.
Comment by Slarth on July 11, 2010 at 9:14 am
@ Kev: You call yourself old at being 30 i'm 31 lol, I've been playing games for over 2 decades as well (I do agree with you on FF's though) but I also like Bioware's tales, I trust them with that but I'd like an ending to my warden as well but it's not essential.
Comment by Mark Schuenemann on July 11, 2010 at 3:06 pm
You know what, I do a lot of what you did in my play throughs. When I played a Cousland, female, when I was at Howe's residence, I couldn't wait to murder him, and when he was saying he deserved more, I gave him the finger, quite literally, with this sense of deep satisfaction.
Another character that stands out in my memory was Alim, power hungry mage who wanted to show his dominance to the Circle, the Templars, and the normals. But when he got to Andraste's ashes, it changed him, and he knew he should use his powers to help people, and do the right thing.
Comment by David G on July 11, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Bioware has a fantastic track record. Knights of the Old Republic was a jump in a new direction for RPGs and was met with a great deal of popularity among RPG and Star Wars fans alike. KOTOR was released in 2003 and Fable and it's booming success in 2004.
I'd say Bioware is a trend-setter not only in RPGs, but other games as well where your decisions can affect how you play the game. A game like Heavy Rain might not even fall into the traditional idea of an RPG but it's story and moral decisions help make it stand out as a personalized experience more than a game.
Every time RPGers see a title on the horizon with that 'Bioware' name tagged to it, we all get a little more wide-eyed and sweaty-palmed at what sort of greatness is in store. I think we're going to be juuuuuuuust fine.
Comment by David G on July 11, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Yes I realize Bioware had nothing to do with Fable. I should have reread that. I meant that Fable had the same good / evil character development similar to KOTOR. Both games had a focus on relationships with other characters based on how you acted.
Comment by Gilaros on July 11, 2010 at 4:53 pm
There might be clues about our Warden, or maybe we can even meet him (via importing from DA:O). I imagine that just like in KotOR 2 we get asked about our original warden and we can describe him/her and what person he was like (maybe Hawke saw him/her at Ostagar and later heard of his/her deeds).
Comment by ms4chen on July 11, 2010 at 6:50 pm
I think I expected more from EA/Bioware since the progression of Neverwinter to DAO. I know that they are in the business to make money but as the customer, I have to take a step back and say do they really care about RPGs at all? I am a PC gamer. I have been a PC gamer from the time of Zork and the games have changed greatly. DAO blew my mind away when I saw it and to think of EA/Bioware going a step back makes me sad.
Comment by chilyn on July 11, 2010 at 9:00 pm
Very nicely written! Unlike that other hack and his "doom and gloom"… :P
Comment by polyhedron on July 11, 2010 at 10:36 pm
Apologist nonsense.
You and those who think like you are precisely the reason real RPGs do not exist anymore. You(the consumer) continue to justify gameplay changes with flimsy nonsense like:
We area minority market, don't pay attention to what we want, make halo of duty 9 to sell more because that's what works.
As long as one or two things(Dragons, Chainmail Bikini) are similar then everything is fine.
I don't even like and didn't buy DA:O but you do a disservice to all those "RPG consumers" who are legitimately making an effort to request a quality product that they wish to see more of. But you go ahead and continue to obfuscate and marginalize the issue.
Lastly, you think the strongest part of Bioware games is the story…………..Wow.
Comment by stevegarbage on July 11, 2010 at 11:07 pm
You inspired me, heh.
Comment by stevegarbage on July 11, 2010 at 11:43 pm
I'd rather play a game that falls short of that unattainable Holy Grail of RPG games that some people hold as an ideal in their minds. This is life, you're not going to get everything you want, ever, in anything.
I've learned to take the future as it comes. Complaining won't stop the raining. I'm not going to be one of those people who sits around miserable because all he can think about is "the good ole' days."
So I pose the question then: define this "real RPG" you're lusting for? If you're at the reins as the developer, what product do you put out?
Comment by gregheff@gmail.com on July 12, 2010 at 2:41 am
Great story and characters, fine… what I really liked about Dragon Age is that it preserved the tough tactical combat of the BG series. If they ditch that, I'm going to be perplexed. That was what I felt made Dragon Ago so righteous. Why is that an 'outdated' concept? Tactical combat? It's just a gameplay idea that's stood the test of time. I like a game that makes me think and not just slash blindingly.
Comment by Kev on July 12, 2010 at 3:19 am
I can see his point of view but of course money talks and its unfortunate that they always try to target the young audience who can't seem to read a good book..In the end its because developers are leaving the pc and catering to console owners instead.different taste in rpg game playing.it seems with every sequel the ones who complain of small things get the changes they want for being vocal.Quit ruing the sequels just because you want a voice for your charter..Its sad that in the end you have to compromise.
Comment by VoD on July 12, 2010 at 11:06 am
You forgot the most important thing: Fable had farting.
Comment by polyhedron on July 12, 2010 at 4:08 pm
So you would rather eat the crap that is shoveled to you and invent justifications for the gameplay changes the company made. I can already see that you fill in the existing holes in DA:O by LARPing your character so the next logical step into fantasy land would naturally be defending the regression of the genre into nothing.
This is not about complaining its about people informing Bioware that certain changes are going to cost them consumers. Which fans have every right to do without being told they suck and they don't know what they like, etc, etc. The fans get enough of this from the industry and the company itself so your parroting of it on a fansite just further exemplifies what has happened to gaming over the years.
Why should I explain what an RPG is to people who don't actually believe it can be defined in the first place? Because, apparently this genre is subjective and can be hacked apart freely according to popular ignorance or demand.
Lastly, Holy grail, Life is hard, miserable people attached to the old ways……..jeez dude you can do better then that.
Comment by polyhedron on July 12, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Fable and KOTOR best rpgs EVAR!!!!11!!!!
Never was an alignment meter ever done before, such paragons of RPGness truly shattered my fragile mind and bruised my colon. David G(aider) speaks the truth.
Comment by TrentCousland on July 12, 2010 at 4:53 pm
dude you so hit it on the mark ive plyed a lot of different rpg's that have bad combat mechanics im good at but hate or good combat mechanics im terrible but the storie is still great anybody remember jade empire terrible mechanics but the story and choices you made had you look over the terrible combat but the one reason i'm not freaking out is because i've pllayed a game that sounds like it's going to be very similar to DA2 anybody heard of Rise of the Argonauts has real time combat (not the greatest) has dialogue wheel that tells you whether the coice is good or bad or angry etc…. but because of the story and how i loved it i couldnt have cared less so people please shut up until we have more detailed info the fact your freakin out bcause its "diff" is dumb wait until we know wat the diff things are and then freak out if you dont like
Comment by stevegarbage on July 12, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Actually David G is my brother. I'm going to smack him and tell him to use a different SN next time, since you're actually not the first person to think he is, heh.
Comment by polyhedron on July 12, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Even I know that someone of such immense and brilliant literary might would never approach the comments section of this site.
but regardless, sorry about trolling your bro, bro.
Comment by stevegarbage on July 12, 2010 at 7:22 pm
Maybe not the comments, but Gaider has done exclusives here before: http://greywardens.com/2010/04/exclusive-intervie… http://greywardens.com/2010/04/exclusive-intervie…
Comment by CaK on July 12, 2010 at 7:35 pm
That is, in fact, not true :) Mr Gaider himself commented many times on greywardens.com
Comment by Anonymous on July 16, 2010 at 1:56 pm
This may become a great game for many people and all, but still…
* If you cannot create your own character of choice = Is NOT a true RPG! *
Sadly, not everyone gets this or not everyone agrees with this. So when I’m looking for a new good RPG to play, I have to do far more browsing around the web than just see a game’s category & positive reviews to determine whenever it’s a game that allows character creation or not due to apologists, idiots, retards and similar pests.
Comment by Saibh on July 18, 2010 at 6:10 am
D: I don't get that header picture choice…everyone's about to be slaughtered!
In any case, I think while some concerns are legit, others are way overblown. I, personally, am looking forward to DAII. :D
Comment by Aki on July 22, 2010 at 12:17 pm
One of the BIG reasons that I even finished DA:O is the fact that there is romances and strong friendships or whatever you'd like to call them. You get involved with the characters and the story and dread for it to end, just like a really awesome book.
You get to personalize your own character for it to be yourself or someone else you want it to be. And I personally enjoy being able to "live" another life now and then.
But even if I won't be able to make my character be what I want her to, there's no reason for me to be sad. Because if they can deliver and amazing story and great characters that you can bond with (if not in game then in mind) I will give it a shot.
At the same time I'm pretty angry to see that DA2 will not be like DA:O, which is in my opinion the best game I've ever played. (With ME2 close behind).
Comment by stevegarbage on July 22, 2010 at 9:47 pm
If you like DA:O and your like ME2, then you should LOVE DA2, which seems like it may be a combination of the best features of both.
Comment by UK_John on August 19, 2010 at 6:36 pm
You hit the nail on the head and unfortunately polyhedron, this guy is just like most American's – does not consider the rest of the world! The STALKER games, on PC alone, have sold 4 million copies. That's more than Bioshock, that's more than Dragon Age – on PC.
The Witcher has also sold over 4 million copies, again on just PC. The Gothic series, on PC, have sold more copies than the Elder Scrolls games.
So for the author to say hardcore roleplayers are a minority is just an ignorant American's lie.
I have never cared about Jade Empire, Mass Effect or DA: O, as none of them are cRPG's. DA: O is the only so-called cRPG in the history of PC gaming to not have a sandbox open gameworld for exploring. Even Oblivion and Fallout 3 had that and they came out on console too! One thing that every Baldur's Gate, Wizardry, Might and Magic , Sacred, Divine and Ultima had exploration!!!
PC games sales are down 60% in 5 years. 85% of console games lose money. Gothic 1 sold more copies on PC in Europe than DA: O sold worldwide on PC.
As long as you dump console sales into the PC sales you are never going to know what is really going on in PC gaming. This article proves the author has no idea what's going on in gaming and is fiddling while Rome burns.
Comment by Simon on December 31, 2010 at 3:12 pm
My friend in a way I understand your pain, however this bile you spew at Steve Garbacz's rather nice views is more then elitist, its bitter anger.
Stick to pen and paer rp if you are looking for the "ultimate" rpg experience, its what I do. I share all the worries you and everyone else does but he has a point.
Its still just a video, and that will never aproach the concept of true rpg because the entire human imagination cannot be scripted.
Bioware has always involved players in their stories and the feeling they generate, game systems and "customization" are only skimming the surface of what rpg is. The story is the core and if they as a game developer can continue to awaken emotion and imagination in their players then it will indeed "Be Allright"