Is Dragon Age 2 the End of BioWare as a Traditional RPG Creator?
Jul 9
In Dragon Age 2, Much Like Mass Effect, You Will Only Be Allowed to Play As a Human Refugee
So I must admit to some irritation with the future of the Dragon Age games series. Don’t get me wrong, I am fairly open minded as a gamer, and the story of Dragon Age 2 seems epic in scale — but the fact that the true role playing element of choice has been removed is a bit of a slap in the face to those of us who played and enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins as an RPG. As a sequel to a game that is considered by the creators as the spiritual successor to one of the most popular roleplaying games of all time, I am left wondering this: what crushed that spirit?
Dragon Age 2′s announcement has been met with questions and a good deal of surprise from BioWare’s more traditional fanbase. The questions have ranged from asking for confirmation about the game’s new direction as a more Mass Effect style of role play, to whether or not the single human character you get to play will even be allowed a gender choice. Chris Priestly, the social voice of BioWare, has been very straightforward and speedy in his responses, showing that BioWare and EA were likely expecting a bit of fallout on their new direction.
What are the answers, you ask? See below for some paraphrasing of conversations taking place on the BioWare Social Network here, and here (these are not direct quotes, so don’t take them as such):
Will Dragon Age 2 really be focused on a single human character — which is the only choice of race or origin you will get?
Yes. The story follows the tale of Hawke, an escapee from Lothering as it was overtaken by the Blight in Dragon Age: Origins. You start out penniless, and a refugee, and over the course of 10 years (epic, yes?) rise to become the Champion of Kirkwall. Your tough moral choices and your choice of companions will define you — and define the shape of things to come.
Is Hawke a male or female character?
Hawke is marketed as a male because that is still the largest segment of people who purchase BioWare’s games, and those purchasers predominantly play male characters. It’s all about branding here, and appealing to the largest part of the target market. There will be the option to play as a female Hawke, however, and Chris promises to keep up his championing of the strong and growing minority of female BioWare gamers.
Now to be fair, I like Mass Effect very much. The story was good enough that I really didn’t care that the character creation choices were limited. I also think that BioWare will put forth a story equally fantastic for Dragon Age 2, and that its pure epic-ness may be enough to win over many of the classic RPG’ers out there. I’m a story guy. I will, in all probability, enjoy the hell out of the game.
I can even see why BioWare and EA went the way they did: the market for an action/adventure “RPG” that allows a player to live the story without being too involved in the main character’s details is much, much bigger than the market for traditional role play. If it wasn’t, D&D would have taken over for Football/Soccer as a televised sport and there would be more RPGs out there than sports titles. I also recognize that limiting character origins allows BioWare to focus more on the character’s story — and while it could be argued that a Dwarf or an Elf could have served just as well, the raw fact is that your average gamer tends to play a Human Warrior. If that wasn’t true, the face of RPGs would have changed a long time ago.
HOWEVER! Teasing me with something as open and infinitely superior in its complexity as was Dragon Age: Origins, only to follow up with something that is simply NOT in the same style or genre, is completely and utterly unfair. As a gamer and a fan, I care how much profit BioWare makes only insofar as it keeps them afloat to continue making more cool stuff that I like. Selfish, but true of most gamers. I don’t want to see things get blanded away from the features and elements that made BioWare my favourite game maker. While I understand their need to grow and expand, on an intellectual level, I am thoroughly disheartened at this turn of events.
I’ll deal. I’ll be ok. I’ll still love them.
But I’ll miss them too.
What are your thoughts on the direction BioWare and EA are taking with Dragon Age 2? Let us know in the comments.
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87 comments
Comment by Nic-V on July 10, 2010 at 11:45 am
Indeed the voiced conversation and Mass Effect style conversation wheel is a huge letdown. But I'll give them a chance. We'll see.
Comment by TheDM on July 10, 2010 at 11:51 am
Why not wait until you have more information before you start crying doom and gloom?
Comment by Lord_Anthonior on July 10, 2010 at 12:21 pm
That's probably why aliens doesn't land on earth and show themselves, many in an immediate and automatic reaction tend to worry of change or of a comparison. The game has just and only been announced and yet I would still be very interested in the game as I was with Origins for it was the first game I bought and played from Bioware and I was very pleased with it, and yet, I would prefer wait for the full game, for the full reviews and to see the complete game so I can actually give them a grade regarding this change.
There are no good or bad choices, just the level of comfort of the results of such choices, and that level of comfort for Bioware will be shown at the sales and the comments once the game is played. Did the direction they took was favorable for Dragon Age franchise? they will have to wait for us consumers to let them know.
Comment by chiliztri on July 10, 2010 at 1:02 pm
I know I'm disheartened because of the sudden change in direction. Dragon Age was supposed to be Bioware returning to their roots, a la Baldur's Gate series. Time and time again in interviews we heard that being thrown around. Now all of a sudden they are chopping their roots and moving on to bigger and better things? I'm interested too, what crushed the spirit and made them change the game formula? Dialogue wheels with paraphrased lines and restrictive voiced protagonist are not a harking back to the games of old.
Comment by CaK on July 10, 2010 at 1:04 pm
There's already plenty of information imho to start crying
Comment by Brockololly on July 10, 2010 at 1:14 pm
Very nicely put. DA2 very well may end up as a great game, but given whats been revealed so far, I can't help but feel like BioWare's days of making BG style, old school RPGs died when they announced Hawke as a voiced PC.
Mass Effect is ok, but I don't want that kind of RPG in Dragon Age. As a long time BioWare fan, this news really upsets me. I just really would like to know why BioWare thought these changes were best for DA when by most accounts, the old school, throwback nature of Origins was a big selling point for many.
Comment by TMZuk on July 10, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Disheartening in the extreme. So much that I doubt I'll purchase the game. The fact alone that it is voiced is… unbearable.
Comment by Ferai on July 10, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Considering we've already seen two Mass Effect games and how they changed ME to ME2 and then now it looks like that DA2 is going to be closer to ME2 than Dragon Age .. you don't really need to wait until DA2 to come out to say "If Dragon Age 2 is like Mass Effect 2, then I will not like it".
What crushed that spirit? EA did when Mass Effect 2 made bags more cash than DA has.
Comment by Orthon on July 10, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Actually, DA:O is the most profitable Bioware game to date, or at least so this article would indicate.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/101951-…
Comment by M.Zachary on July 10, 2010 at 2:22 pm
The abcense of choice in creating your character didn't stop planescape torment from being a great rpg. I think it will depend on the story they present to us in DA2 and the actual roles we will get to play, for me to decide if DA2 will be a good RPG or not. Not the fact that i can't play an elf or a dwarf…. that kind of choice is fun but not really nessecary and in my honest opinion not really the defining principle of an 'traditional' rpg.
Comment by Jimmy on July 10, 2010 at 2:23 pm
Honestly, I don't see how this is any different from most of their other games. But look at BG – You play the Baal spawn origin starting out as an apprentice at Candlekeep. You can control your gender and class (I havn't seen anything saying that you will must play a warrior in DA2). You play an epic story dealing with your origin as a Baal spawn. This seems to be the same pattern they have for most of their games.
People complained about the lack of voicing and the dialogue tree system so they are changing. You can say it's a let down (I personally had no issues with them) but I know other people that were dissapointed in how it was done in the first game.
I see no reason to complain so far. Maybe something will annoy me when the game comes out, but for now it seems to be the same pattern they have followed for almost all of their games since Baldur's Gate.
Comment by Walt on July 10, 2010 at 2:38 pm
I don't understand why they would take a successful franchise and improve on what they did. This is like substituting fish for chicken in a chicken sandwich and trying to pawn it off as improved. Sorry… I will be floating my dollars somewhere else. Why can't these bloated code mongers just give us what we enjoyed instead of "re-imagining their creative vision?"
Comment by Poe-it on July 10, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Coming from the world of table top RP and on line text and dice games I have a little bit different opinion. At the onset character creation is really important.That was one of the draws for me to move from sheet and dice to console role-play. I truly enjoyed playing the different races. Yet I am taking a wait and see approach with the new game.
Being a voiced PC, I think they had to surrender certain things for disk space and game play reasons. It is my hope that they kept many of the same elements like the romance and the camp part of the game. I enjoyed that in DA:O and i was pleasantly surprised by it.
Comment by Calico on July 10, 2010 at 4:56 pm
What? Plenty of traditional RPGs are way more linear than what Bioware is doing with DA2. But we could just freak out and cry because change is bad!
Comment by Darq Gus on July 10, 2010 at 3:08 pm
There is nothing worse than games where the protagonist is a goddamned mute. "Hey Gordon Freeman! Cat got your tongue?!"
I don't know what the problem is with this announcement. Mass Effect let me play as a woman (ok, I'm a cross dresser but the voice actor was so much better–) and I got to design her exactly as babelicious as I wanted. And all my lines were spoken well. I elbowed the odd scientist in the face, and deliberated with Conan's furrowed brow on whether to wipe out an entire species. It was rich, rewarding RPGing; plus I shot some aliens in the face as they goddamned deserved.
I will not miss the fact that I cannot play Dragon Age as a dwarf. Or an elf. Or a hobbit, pixue, or gelatinous tetrahedron. In fact, if all 'classic' fantasy races were exterminated I could only applaud and support any tyrant who initiated that.
RPGs are about deliverying great lines and making meaningful decisions. And then hacking about those who stand in your way.
Hail to the King.
Comment by Geraldo Nascimento on July 10, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Have you played The Witcher or Planescape: Torment? I enjoyed both immensely, and both are recognized and distinguised RPGs, one of them has the honour of being considered by some to be best RPG yet.
Both of them feature fixed main characters, and they're both "human" males. The games are still awesome, you still have choice, even more than in other RPGs, and your character has a voice that Bioware wasn't able to give to Dragon Age: Origins' main character. I'm not talking about the voice acting, I'm talking about personality traits that you could choose. Reactions that were unique to the actions you decided.
Anyways, I'm sure one of the first DLC will be "play the game as any race you want". It's begging that, for sure.
Comment by Bananacave on July 10, 2010 at 5:59 pm
I understand that DA2 is not the same as DAO but I don’t understand why that means bioware will never make an “old school” RPG again. EA has them under pressure to toss out a sequel & that’s what they’re doing. Maybe there will be an “origins 2″ in the future. It’s one thing to say “I don’t like the direction of this game,” & another to say “Bioware will never make a game like that again!”
Comment by Colm on July 10, 2010 at 4:18 pm
I don't get it, if there's no choices regarding the "origins", one would think there's more choices during the actual story… why is it bad? why does the writer say the whole element of choice is gone?
Comment by CaK on July 10, 2010 at 4:29 pm
The author did not say 'BioWare will never make a traditional RPG again". He is asking that question …
Comment by Carvega on July 10, 2010 at 4:35 pm
Yea, I really don't see the logic behind the design change. Just as the Warden in the 1st game could have come from any race or class… why can't this escapee? But honestly, I still have not seen a quote from Bioware saying that this character would HAVE to be human. Likewise, I haven't seen where they've stated you will play as a single character. In fact, the very quote on this page states "Your tough moral choices and your choice of companions will define you — and define the shape of things to come."… which actually sounds the exact same as their D&D games, and DA:O. So I'm not sure what I'm missing… but I don't understand all the controversy.
Comment by Carvega on July 10, 2010 at 4:37 pm
Actually, DA sold more than ME2. So I'm not sure where you're getting that from.
Comment by CaK on July 10, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Chris Priestly from BioWare confirmed that the player character will be human only. source: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index…
Comment by Darren on July 10, 2010 at 7:20 pm
I will be reserving judgement on the game until I can play it, but what has me worried more than the way DA has changed, is the potential for the voice actor chosen to get right on my nerves. I wonder how Bioware have chosen a voice actor, because if they get it wrong, especially with such a wide diversity of players throughout the world, it could go very very wrong. I am picky enough about someone I have to listen to throughout a game that it will ruin a game for me if the voice grates on my nerves. Final Fantasy, I am talking to you.
Comment by chilyn on July 10, 2010 at 5:23 pm
LOL! I may not agree with everything you said — but you frickin' rock man! :D
Comment by chilyn on July 10, 2010 at 7:47 pm
You know, I think a lot of the question of "controversy" comes from how people define an RPG. A traditional RPG, in my understanding, is something in the realm of old school D&D — you pick everything from race to class to background story and appearance. Name too. Dragon Age: Origins embraced all of these things (though even Origins limited you somewhat by only allowing you to choose from six possible origins).
Now you get one origin possibility (refugee from the Blight), which could be viewed as either broad or extremely limited, depending on how BioWare approaches it. You lose the ability to choose much what can make your character YOUR character (including choosing a name — you're stuck with Hawke, like it or not) — therefore you lose the Role Play element as defined by a traditional RPG.
You are playing a character that is defined for you by the story, and then you choose between options to shape the story toward a possible ending. This is not role play, this is novel play or movie play — this is that boiled down subset of role play that was so popular in the 80's: Choose Your Own Adventure. Remember those? Some of them even allowed you to roll stats — but the character was never yours.
Games like Mass Effect 1 and 2, The Witcher, and all others of that set are awesome and fun to play — but they are not really RPGs, no matter what the marketing people tell you. The Witcher at the least end of that scale, as you actually choose very little about the character, you simply help him make his choices — just like you would in any -action- title that allows dialogue outside of in-game movies. Your not Playing a Role, you're helping a predefined character make one of a couple predefined choices. This can be said of Dragon Age: Origins as well, as there are limitations to a solo player video game that take away from true RP Gaming, but DA:O still made you feel like the character was yours — could be YOU even. That's Role Playing.
Once again, the marketing reasons for this change make sense to me. They need a sequel that will appeal to a larger audience so they can make money on a grand scale. There are more action "RPG" players out there than traditional role players. The Origin Stories thing was sooo last year — and to be honest, they would not be able to use it twice. That wouldn't sell games in the same way. It wouldn't be as powerful the second time around — but an action "RPG" with a seriously kick ass story based on the best selling solo RPG pretty much ever, and appealing to a broad range of gamers (especially console gamers) is gold in a really, REALLY big bucket.
Comment by E-Nomad on July 10, 2010 at 5:54 pm
I am in the camp that is it disheartening to see the franchise changed in such a way as to forsake the very reasons it was so popular.
They may be shooting themselves in the foot if they tread too far into the "Casual Zone".
For me, its like this, currently. I was pretty bitter my warden and their companions wouldnt be returning, for this ME style protagonist. Even though Awakening pretty much leads the way for more content for the Warden per its ending.
SO, if they happen to release more DA:O content to wrap things up and add some -real- closure, then perhaps ill be ready for the sequel forgoing what i liked about its predecessor. Otherwise, i am alienated.
Comment by chilyn on July 10, 2010 at 6:01 pm
And if the posts about the colourful dialogue wheel over actually being able to read the text are true, that feels even more limiting. At least if you can read the text it sort of kind of maybe feels like you are the one deciding what the character says…
Comment by Joe on July 10, 2010 at 6:01 pm
i think all you guys are over-reacting. period. the changes they are making will only make it a better rpg, not less of one. so you cant choose which race you play as, not a big deal considering that small sacrifice can make the story MUCH more focused. so stop over-reacting and just wait to see how it actually turns out. hell we dont even have any gameplay clips yet. way to jump the gun. /comment.
Comment by RavenWolfx on July 10, 2010 at 6:06 pm
I love ME2 and DA:O. The origins in DA:O were definitely cool, but I'm not going to piss and moan about not being able to be a dwarf noble again.
Comment by Daniel on July 10, 2010 at 6:08 pm
All for the sake of a dynamic conversation wheel :( I dont mind reading lines of text if it means that i can kick as as an elven rogue or a dwarven prince why take that away?!?!?!?! why after so many years does BW need to need to change a epic formula for one that is arguably less enjoyable for all of us who have been playing tradtional rpgs for years. ARRRGGGGGGG NERD RAGE
Comment by matthy on July 10, 2010 at 8:30 pm
While MAss Effect is a fun game it isn’t DA:O those are two completely differen games
i try to explain
in Mass Effect no matter what you do the story never felt like it was mine but allways it was Sheppards story with a somewhat limmited freedom
In DA:O the Warden is you (the player ) with a much deeper conversation system
and an alllmost unlimited sence of freedom
and i allways felt moore connected to the DA characters than those of ME
and most importantly DA:O is more like an oldsool RPG while ME more like an action adventure game and now BW/EA are turning DA into an ME kind of game
ant this is why most of DA:O fans who loved DA:O for what it is are so angry/ disappointed about
if i wanted to play ME i would not buy DA:O and now DA2 turns into ME
Why??????
i think the day they announced DA2 is to me A very sad day indeed (Morrigan disapproves -1000:( )
but i will still follow how it develops to see how all these changes turn out
i won’t expect much of it right now since BW/EA have really disappointed
me but i still have a little hope left
Comment by Badpc on July 10, 2010 at 6:59 pm
Not everyone is ignorant like you are.
Comment by Jeremy Franklin Koerber on July 10, 2010 at 7:12 pm
one simple thing i'll say now, i loved how you could hit escape during conversations in DAO to skip ahead, but in ME you have to hit space bar and if your not careful you could skip or end an conversation… lol
so i actually loved the DA approach to dialogue and being able to use our number keys to select quickly.
Comment by Brockololly on July 10, 2010 at 7:38 pm
Yeah, the dialogue wheel where we have to guess the intentions or exact wording of the PC really kills the RP aspect of things for me.
With any sequel devs will want to make changes, but it just seems to me that instead of building off of Origins and making evolutionary changes to that formula, they're throwing the baby out with the bath water in the hope they'll attract all of the "mainstream" crowd by making the game more "accessible" like Mass Effect. Apparently, having to read dialogue is too much of a burden for some people… :(
Comment by chilyn on July 10, 2010 at 7:52 pm
So…. anybody think or dare hope that BioWare's grand plan with DA 2 is to capture the more mainstream action fantasy game market — and then hit us with an MMORPG based in the Dragon Age world?
Comment by Mystic on July 10, 2010 at 7:53 pm
I agree with you completely, and am quite disappointed by the shift DA2 seems to be taking from DA:O. I, for one, played through the game multiple times, and it wasn't until my third runthrough that I played as a human noble. It wasn't until my fourth runthrough that I played as a male. As a RPG player, you get attached to the characters YOU created. I enjoyed Assassin's Creed, but I wasn't attached to the protagonist, I didn't feel they were mine. The fact that I can't roll over my character to DA2 as I did with BG2 is very disappointing. Also, I can't imagine wanting to play through the game more than once when you're stuck with the same main character and origin story.
Personally, I was expecting to learn more about what happened to Morrigan and her child. That was a perfect setup for a sequel and yet they seem to have just let it fall by the wayside.
I will wait to learn more before I pass judgment and decide whether to invest my money in the sequel, but for now, I'm concerned that Bioware has set me up for disappointment.
Comment by Mystic on July 10, 2010 at 7:56 pm
You may be right about that, and granted ME2 did well, but ignoring the desires of their existing market is not the way to make more money.
Comment by Darq Gus on July 10, 2010 at 8:00 pm
Ha, thanks. Gamers have always had different opinions about what makes an RPG; allow me to rally you to my banner.
For me, it's picking a name (I still chose my Christian name for Shepherd and enjoyed that NPCs addressed me by the name I'd inherited, such as Shepherd or Geralt of Rivia, instead of "Hey… Human Male-" or nothing at all.) It's also playing a personality and alignment, and choosing my own path.
But I don't have unrealistic expectations about game design. A certain degree of linearity is necessary for storyline and pacing; branching dialogue is ABSURDLY time consuming (try it, your work increases exponentially) compounded further by the fact that modern game reviewers expect full (and costly) voice acting. The current thinking is that you don't put in content that people won't see; better to make a bowl of rich chunky broth than three litres of thin and tasteless gruel. Hence, D&Ds nine alignments are always trimmed to three : Good, Evil & "Can I have 50gp more?" (Credit to Bioware for using Law & Chaos in Mass Effect, which eliminated conflicting PC motivations for pursuing the main plot, "-But I don't WANT to save the galaxy, I'm Eeeeevil!" ) Races are dropped to save on hiring 6 voice actors to read the huge amount of PC dialogue for both sexes. These are all commonsense decisions they have to make with limited resources.
So what's left?
Well written dialogue,* interesting support characters, an original(!) plot with twists, and thought provoking player choices with repercussions.
That's an RPG for me. The rest is just ancillary.
* Note, choosing a frickin' colour instead of the line I wish to speak robs me of RP choice and a huge amount of enjoyable interactivity. You see, I'm a Magneto sort of character, but they're trying to give me "Hulk ANGRY!" "Hulk SAD!" "You make Hulk SMILE."
Comment by Nonny on July 10, 2010 at 8:38 pm
I'm disappointed, because part of what I loved about Dragon Age: Origins is that you could pick any one of multiple races. Your background shaped the story. It made the game eminently replayable, because my Elven mage experienced the story differently than my Cousland noble than my Dwarven princess.
If they are truly trying to span ten years, though, I can understand the limitation from a design perspective. Allowing that many choices would be a massive undertaking, and would probably delay the release of the game by years. Something they have committed to with the Dragon Age franchise is quick releases, as we're seeing with the DLCs.
I'm not happy about it, but I trust that despite my misgivings, they will design a great game in the end. I have yet to be disappointed by a Bioware game.
Comment by Dawson on July 10, 2010 at 9:54 pm
I am a little disappointed and there is no doubt in my mind that ea had something to do with the change, but as you said i will most definitely still buy DA2 I really hope that I can transfer my choices from DAO to DA2 even though I know my character will not make an appearance, I still want to see something from DA. I really hope Bioware doesnt disappoint.
Comment by Fallerup on July 10, 2010 at 10:57 pm
I can't really see DA becoming a MMORPG, unless they include the whole country, Orlais and the land to the south and north of Ferelden and perhaps more… I don't really see it, but who knows what they come up with.
Comment by Fallerup on July 10, 2010 at 11:07 pm
I haven't played ME or ME 2, so I wouldn't know what to expect, but all my friends that have say they are very cool games. So if that is true I wouldn't mind, but the fact that you take away the freedom to pick a class is sad, even if I liked the sword and shield human warrior the best, I really like choices, at least between the class I'm gonna play. A DLC however, is something else, you play as that character and you don't get choices, so I'm cool with that.
Comment by meat on July 10, 2010 at 11:18 pm
They are changing it so you can pay for new races and origin's as DLC, that is my guess anyway, too bad.
Comment by Des on July 10, 2010 at 11:33 pm
read Chilyn's post about 5 posts up. He explains it quite well.
Comment by Mikaeru on July 11, 2010 at 12:22 am
I really can't understand this. I waited and waited and waited to hear the end of the DA:O story, AND THIS I WHAT I GET?
WHAT THE F*CK?
If I could afford to fly to their offices and yell at them personally for messing with my favorite game of all time, then I would.
I am inconsolable about all of this. I absolutely hate Shepard and the narration wheel and the dialogue styles used to create him/her.
I feel WAY more connected to my DA:O human warrior than I do to Sheppard.
SOOOOOO DISAPPOINTED.
With this announcement, I'm actually beginning to wonder if Bioware will screw up SW:TOR, too. Surely, there is money to be made by releasing that game early and making it more like WoW, yes?
Comment by Poe-it on July 11, 2010 at 12:39 am
From the onset I have known the game would progress due to the title (Origins) but I know for myself I was not expecting this many changes. I was disappointed with Awakenings but still it followed a similar formula. I am concerned that DA2 is going to be a massive departure from the original format.
BioWare should be proud of themselves they have created a game that has such a loyal following and player base. I think we as players were hurt that they would change what we have come to be so loyal about. We will kick and scream all the way until the new game is released. Then we will all go out and buy it. If they have messed it up to badly then we will kick and scream until they fix it in the next release.
We need to take a wait and see attitude. The game has not been released and they may take all these comments and fine tune and tweak certain factors. The one thing I do know is that I will continue to play my DA:O and DA:A and enjoy the hell out of them until the new game comes out.
Comment by Darkrose on July 11, 2010 at 12:53 am
I'm definitely in the "disappointed" camp. The reason I was eager to play DAO is that it was sold as the "spiritual successor" to the game that got me writing again, and helped me meet people who are still close friends ten years later.
DAO captured my attention from the start because of the options. I was especially intrigued by the unique take on dwarves and elves and magic and religion in Thedas. I've played through Origins three times and have three more playthroughs going, including a male elven mage and–thanks to the "Adopted" mod–a female human noble mage. Oh, and I'm playing my female Tabris through for the third time because I have so much fun with the character and I want to see what happens if she romances Zevran instead of Alistair.
Maybe DA2 will have that level of replayability, and connection with the characters. But based on what we know so far, it doesn't look like that's a priority.
I'm also frankly sick of the "we have to aim for the 18-25 year old white male demographic" line. Gaming isn't the same industry as it was ten or fifteen years ago. Female gamers are still a minority, but a sizeable, growing minority with choices about where to spend our gaming dollars. If DA2 is primarily aimed at guys, with just a few scraps thrown to keep the female players happy, well…I never cancelled my City of Heroes subscription, and there are a lot of women I know who play WoW.
Comment by catwhowalksbyhimself on July 11, 2010 at 3:22 am
The problem is that, according to a recent analysis I saw, the big budget games have to sell 1 million copies just to break even, The means they can cater to only the biggest demographics and most popular genres and play types. Every one else has to just forget about it, except or small budget indie titles.
Comment by Godzilla Guru on July 11, 2010 at 6:26 am
I guess I’ll be disappointed with the reductions of choices you can make in the game, but if they make up for that with good storytelling and gameplay it may just work out. Almost all of my playthroughs have been human noble, but I tried to play each one differently to some degree (i.e. my Aedan was a bit of a womanizer who involved himself with both Morrigan and Leliana, but chose Morrigan in the end and hardened Alister so that he could recruit Loghain. When I played as myself I chose Leliana though I considered having a relationship with Morrigan and I never hardened Allister.) My point is my only real concern at this point is the general lack of choices for your character as we’ve been told at this point, but I’m content to wait and see…
Comment by Chainsaw on July 11, 2010 at 9:58 am
Seems to me that people are seriously, seriously overreacting. The only two things you can't pick are your race, and your name. OH NO, I WON'T BE ABLE TO ROLEPLAY NOW! Um… wrong. Racial choice isn't found in every game, in fact, two of the greatest RPG's of all time (Fallout 1 and 2) did not allow for a racial choice. And as for the name, well, who really cares? I always thought it was awkward in voice-acted games when the PC's name couldn't be said aloud, so at least by choosing your name in advance, you will actually be able to hear it spoken, instead of "skipped over" in the text.
I imagine you will still be able to customize the look, stats, and class of your character. Your stats/class will have a FAR greater impact on the game than your race or name, so why all the panic? Beat it nerds!
Comment by explodingpigeon on July 11, 2010 at 11:52 am
As I only have a PS3 and a Mac I've never played Mass Effect, but Dragon Age is one of my favorite games. I think if they have made the choice to stick to one character they should make sure that the plot and storyline has enough of the original feel to keep fans happy. Saying this, I doubt a replica of Origins' format with the choice of starting stories would feel like something entirely new, so maybe it's a good thing they're considering changing the elements of the game. Also, as a female gamer, I do hope they give the gender option consideration :)
Comment by ms4chen on July 11, 2010 at 6:39 pm
As a female gamer, I am disappointed. I have played dwarfs, elves and humans and each one has put a different twist on the story line. I do not play as a male and all of the RPG games I have ever played allowed me to play as a female. I am not in the 18 – 25 age so does that mean that EA does not want my gaming dollars? I have enjoyed DAO for its playability and its romance. I do not know if I want to see this new DA2 now that I am hearing more about it.
Comment by chilyn on July 11, 2010 at 8:16 pm
The ability to play as a female is still available, just not a part of their frontal marketing. :)
Comment by chilyn on July 11, 2010 at 8:22 pm
I'm not sure that they will not allow class choices — that would be a huge mistake. I think the main issue is that, when there is a whole world of races and peoples out there with very detailed and rich histories and cultures, you as a player are stuck with some guy from Lothering. :)
Comment by cannibalpresident on July 11, 2010 at 9:52 pm
Oh goodness, what a load of hysteria over nothing.
Firstly, claiming that restricting the player to a single race turns the game into something other than an RPG is to disregard some of the greatest examples of that genre ever made, namely Planescape and the first two Fallout games.
Secondly, the decision to go with Hawke is not so much a change in direction as a focusing and consolidation of what they did in DA:O. When you play as a dwarven noble your character is born into a specific family with specific allies and enemies. Likewise, if you plump for a down-at-heel elf, you're not playing just any Alienage civilian, you're playing a specific elf with a pre-written father, bride and cousin.
That's exactly what's happening here. From what I can tell, there's no functional difference between playing a specific (albeit unnamed) human with a pre-existing family and background in DA:O and playing as Hawke with his/her family and background in DA2. Oh, except being able to change the character's name. Horror!
And since – origin stories aside – the differences between the various races' stories in DA:O were entirely superficial, it's not like we're losing a whole lot there.
A bigger concern would be removing the option to choose warrior/rogue/mage character classes, but I don't think there's been any indication of that yet.
Comment by Bree on July 11, 2010 at 10:58 pm
I'm just pissed that Bioware is continuing the Dragon Age series at all. I think they should go back to working on a slick, isometric view Baldur's Gate III. If I were Ray Muzyka, I'd step back, take a look at all the money I've made over the years, and say, hey maybe it's time to get back to what really made our RPGs awesome: a massive world, with interesting and exotic characters, incredible depth of character / skill / ability development, a million ways to solve any situation or win any battle, etc. Insane difficulty, for those who want that.
They should really get back to that. At least for just one game.
Comment by Kev on July 11, 2010 at 11:41 pm
You forget without nerds like us there wouldn't be any good rpgs out there.
Comment by midknightgeek on July 12, 2010 at 1:53 am
In the Balder's Gate series, you know…the one that everyone and their hunting hound totes as the BEST friggin' RPG 'ever!!!
You had one main character…
Peace & Love yall ;)
ps – DAO was/is an amazing accomplishment, but imo it's sole purpose and intent was to "Introduce" us and the world to Thedas and it's mythology and history.
Now with DA2 Bioware narrows the focus a bit to better able "tell" a more personal and compelling journey and adventure, set in the land we've come to love.
It's not a step backwards, it's a leap forward in depth!
Comment by Ordinary on July 12, 2010 at 6:27 am
Business as usual. The quality of the game decreases, yet the sheep still gleefully pay for it. Therefore, insinuating the continuation of the cycle. Baaaa little sheep.
Comment by Darkrose on July 12, 2010 at 6:46 am
Here's my question:
Will 18-25 year old guys not buy the game if some of the marketing includes a female PC?
My bet is that no, they won't, any more than large numbers of 18-25 year old guys refused to buy DAO because there was an option for a male same-sex romance. It's always treated as a given that the target demographic will be turned off by anything that's not presented as being solely about them. I don't think that's true.
Comment by Darkrose on July 12, 2010 at 6:49 am
Uh, no.
You had the option to play as any race, and either gender. The only restrictions were the 2E D&D restrictions on class/race combos.
Comment by RedCheek on July 12, 2010 at 7:41 am
I agree with some of the other posters that referenced The Witcher and Torment as first rate games without any customization of the main character, so I'll keep a guarded optimism for DA2. In general though, I tend to dislike the homogenization of RPGs into action games with skill trees.
Also, and this is snarky, but has anyone who has written that something is a 'slap in the face' ever actually been slapped in the face?
Comment by The Avatar on July 12, 2010 at 12:12 pm
This is not the first time this happens with a gaming series. Back in 1992 Ultima 7 was released – one of the greatest games to date imho. You had a party of adventurers, each member had its own personality, backstory etc. There were about 200 NPCs in the world, every one had his own personality, story etc. There was a day/night-cycle and the NPcs reacted to it, got up in the morning, went to work, went to a tavern in the evening and finally went to bed again. The world was alive with animals etc. You could even bake bread by fetching water, mixing it with flour and putting the dough into the oven to give an example of the world interactivity in this game.
Then, in 1994 Ultima 8 was released. There was no party anymore, no day/night cycle, no baking bread, there were very few NPCs, many without proper backstory and personality. Ultima 9 which was released 1999 went even further back from complexity, making the series more of an action-adventure.
Oh and Ultima 8 and 9 were released through EA… coincidence?
Comment by Brinstar on July 13, 2010 at 3:46 am
I'm super disappointed at the decision to market 'Hawke' as male. Until I read the interviews, I assumed that we had absolutely no choice, whatsoever, that we had to be forced into playing a male character.
Many of my friends were completely mislead by Mass Effect's marketing as well, and refused to even purchase the game because they believed you could only play a male character.
I think they should make it more widely known that 'Hawke' is actually female, and market her as such, so consumers are drawn to playing the game, and so that BioWare can avoid the problems of misleading advertising.
Comment by Danielle88 on July 13, 2010 at 6:55 am
Oh goodness, please stop complaining.
I know it seems that Bioware is going backwards with this plan to stick with just a human, but what they are trying to do here is tell a story about a human, not an elf, not a dwarf, but a HUMAN!
It's just like Mass Effect, the only difference is that in the first DA, they gave you the option to be three other races.
This is something new, and i welcome it; especially if you get to play as a female and the main character is fully voiced. (i hope they don't have those sessions where there is subtitles and no dialogue, epic fail) It's rather annoying to me to have my character stand there like a mannequin while they telepathically converse with someone in the game.
Also, did anyone say that this was the final project of the DA series? I don't remember hearing that…
I don't understand why a few people believe this is so.
Comment by FedericoV on July 13, 2010 at 3:12 pm
In my opinion, with DA2 Bioware is limiting the choice at the beginning to exapnd the roleplay during the game. It's easier with a fixed starting charachter even if I'm pretty sure that our choices will change the nature of Hawke a lot.
Comment by TheSunGrowsDark on July 13, 2010 at 9:31 pm
I am disapointed by the direction Dragon Age is going.
Dragon Age: Origins was about making my character exactly how I wanted, and I prefered that my character didn't have a voice, his voice was mine as I read the words,
it felt like an extension of myself in the game world .
In Mass Effect; Shepard was just Shepard to me, and less personal.
And being forced to have a name like 'Hawke', Ugh…. can't believe this.
Comment by jeffenator on July 13, 2010 at 9:38 pm
OK but I want to continue my character after the main story ends, are there any scenarios, modules (other than L's song and return to ostagar) that I can download?
I was quite bored listening to pre-made movies like mass effect 1 (never bought 2 because of it) I hate cut scenes, I want to be playing as much as possible. I waited 5 years for dragon age and now it turns out to be a one shot wonder…
Comment by Chupathingy on July 14, 2010 at 1:36 am
I have no desire to play Dragon Effect 2.
Comment by Simon on July 14, 2010 at 2:44 pm
I agree ! Dragon Age: Origins misses so many stuff I used to enjoy while playing Neverwinter Nights. I like how RPG games allow me the freedom to play myself, it's that why it's called a roleplaying game ?
Comment by Ken Calis on July 15, 2010 at 7:15 pm
I still remember all the negativity towards Neverwinter Nights when it was released. But look at it now: It's still being played all around the clock. I enjoyed NWN much more than I enjoyed NWN2. The persistent worlds were amazing … MMORPG at it's finest, imho, with Dungeon Masters … come one man, what else do you want?
Comment by Guest on July 18, 2010 at 6:51 pm
I wonder… Had they marketed Hawke as a female and mislead the majority market (men) to not buy the game, would have been better? You're being ridiculous…
Comment by Aki on July 22, 2010 at 11:34 am
Well as long as I can play as a female I guess I will play it. = I prefer elf over human though.
But I wish it was more like Mass Effect 2/3 where you can and will be able to export your savefile and it might effect what happens in the game.
Seriously, all this fuss getting it on with Alistair and I won't be with him anymore? JEEEBUS HELP US!
Comment by Aki on July 22, 2010 at 12:40 pm
I think Morrigan isn't the only one who disapproves. :c
Ferelden disapproves -1000000000
Oh yes.
Comment by Aki on July 22, 2010 at 12:52 pm
It sucks. But I'm an ME2 fan and I do not mind playing one specific character that I haven't even made up if the story is good and you can develop relationships with the characters.
Although I am also quite disheartened by this turn.. = DA:O is my favourite game and I'm feeling pretty sick thinking that DA2 won't be the same.
Suppose DA:O is just TOO good.
Comment by Kiely on August 17, 2010 at 7:36 pm
Ya, it seems they're now missing the point, when for a minute there they seemed to get it better than anyone before. In what is heralded as one of the best RPG series ever – Baldur's gate/Shadows of Amn – your character progressed from level 1 to a virtual god. For the traditional RPG player (i.e., old school pen and paper player) that was the emotional connection to keep playing.
I didn't mind playing as other characters in the DA:O DLC, that too kept with the spirit of p&p RPGs. You always had your main character but often you would play in tournaments where characters were provided for you or with other GMs/DMs who wanted you to play a campaign as a certain character or class… but you always went back to your main character. I assumed this would be the case with DA2… but I guess I was wrong and that IS disappointing. The fact you have to play as a predetermined character (besides the choice of sex) is even more frustrating.
If we are never to revisit our character from DA:O it makes me wonder why they left some loose ends, (e.g., Morrigan with child)?
Comment by Kiely on August 17, 2010 at 7:36 pm
Also, do we really need another we'll tell you the story we want, you sit there and like it Action/RPG??? What the market is missing is what DA:O originally seemed to promise – a true RPG with some of the best NPC interaction ever. That has been missing since NWN (sorry NWN2 is a POS). But now we get a game that is looking like it will take an approach that is very similar to many others.
This quote really made me bristle:
"It’s all about branding here, and appealing to the largest part of the target market."
Notice the emphasis is NOT on making the best game(or product), it is on appealing to the mass market… same mistake Toyota made. When you try to be something for everybody you risk being nothing to anyone.
Comment by demetri on August 18, 2010 at 3:18 am
race and sex actually matters to those who are female and not white mainly because…well frankly because who wants to play a character completely opposite of who they are. Besides hawke sounds like some drunk college jock..yea, very rpg like
Comment by william on November 8, 2010 at 7:45 pm
while I am dishearten about the direction bioware is going. I will not fuss in a way I am content it will be easier for me to start my game company and buy bioware out and set them back on track. It seems that bioware has forgotten RPG are suppost to be about the freedom of choice and a never ending open world NOT a fixed character with a predetermined endings.
Comment by bob on November 8, 2010 at 11:03 pm
WOW! You have to be kidding me. Traditional RPG… dude get over it, they took the game and went a bit into the realm of JRPGs (if you need clarification press ctrl+W, or stop writing articles about video games)
Comment by Rohan on November 26, 2010 at 3:02 am
Just in case you were still wondering, here’s some more great news about DA2;
There will be no tactical overhead view on any
Comment by Dane on December 13, 2010 at 9:14 am
Ive just recently found out that alot of people are worried about the wrong thing. Ive PLAYED Dragon Age 2 and beleive it or not (frankly i dont give a shit) but there is alot of evidence to suggest that you not only play as elves and dwarves but also a fourth new race, similiar to the antagonist in the destiny trailer. This i have found out from the concept art that was released recently which shows these four races in male and female forms. Also their will be dialougue and for some people who beleive it is to be set in tevinter, you are wrong! it is to be set in Ferelden and you play as a refugee from lothering who escapes with your family.
P.S. For the sentence 'Ive PLAYED Dragon Age 2' its true because i was at the Euro Gamer convention 2010 and they had a playable demo, in which you could play as both Male and Female characters.
Comment by stevegarbage on December 13, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Awesome that you got a chance to play the demo, but let me clear up a couple things:
1) Your main character Hawke can only be human. However, you may get companions comprising the other races, like in Origins.
2) The "new" race is not new, those are the Qunari. They have been redesigned slightly from Origins.
3) The game is not set in Tevinter and it is not set in Ferelden either. Although the first scene is the escape from Lothering (which is in Ferelden), the game is centered in Kirkwall which is a city located in the Free Marches across the narrow sea to the north of Ferelden.
Comment by Heath Falkenrath on February 15, 2011 at 9:03 pm
I want Bioware to stop making the same freaking game but to a different setting. Much of the cast of DAO comes from jade empire. Black Whirlwind = Oghren, Sagacious Zu = Morrigan, etc. In almot every single one of their games you play someone who rises to a hero and becomes part of a legendary super group. Most of the group is destroyed and your left to form a group of people to combat evil that threatens to destroy everything. I want Bioware to quit basing their games stories off what came before and actually write something original. Also DA2 lost the flair that DAO had with different origins and races getting scrapped. This is why Bioware will not top the elderscrolls series with their games.
Comment by alex meseck on February 20, 2011 at 10:35 am
i hated the awakening attachment and i bet i'll hate DA2 also because of one thing. if it doesn't have allistar in i swear i loved the first game soley because you grew your relationship with allistar and that was the best game EVER!!!!!!! because of him. i dont care about not making my own character, what i NEED IS MORE ALLISTAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by Larissa on February 24, 2011 at 5:28 pm
You would be much more convincing if you could spell ALISTAIR'S name right -_-
Comment by Bryan on March 7, 2011 at 2:58 am
I am disappointed to hear that Dragon Age II has sacrificed some choice in the game. To me, it's not about whether the choices I make with my toon profoundly impact the world around me (although that is really cool), it's about a fantasy.
As a rpg gamer, I want to be able to escape and be given choices about the type of toon I have to look at throughout the game. Nearly every other game on the market has a human as the main character, so it was nice that DA:O gave choices; now that's been taken away.
I am also disappointed that they changed the look and feel of the game. To me, DA II seems more like a comic book/cartoony, vs dirty/gritty and more realistic. It's kind of like WoW vs LoTRO. It's not that it's bad, necessarily, but the style of graphics in DA:O was great, I thought.
I'm happy with many of the changes, but why did they take away aspects of the first game that made it so awesome?!!!